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Initial exercise - PJW - 17-05-2009
Before tackling actual IRSE Exam layouts I suggest starting off with the attached relatively simple layout as an introductory exercise.
The idea is to complete the grid on the other attachment- it is a bit of a mixture between a "Route Box" and a simple "Control Table".
The IRSE exam will actually provide the route boxes to define the use of the layout and expect rather more of the candidate for the Control Table, but this exercise should discover whether you can can read the layout symbols, decide which signals have which routes, comprehend the use of the layout for the moves specified on the layout description. Similarly it will find out if you understand the essence of interlocking and can work out where the overlaps end etc.
Complete it by Monday 1st June and post your answers.
RE: Initial exercise - sugavanam nagarajan - 22-05-2009
(17-05-2009, 06:02 PM)PJW Wrote: Before tackling actual IRSE Exam layouts I suggest starting off with the attached relatively simple layout as an introductory exercise.
The idea is to complete the grid on the other attachment- it is a bit of a mixture between a "Route Box" and a simple "Control Table".
The IRSE exam will actually provide the route boxes to define the use of the layout and expect rather more of the candidate for the Control Table, but this exercise should discover whether you can can read the layout symbols, decide which signals have which routes, comprehend the use of the layout for the moves specified on the layout description. Similarly it will find out if you understand the essence of interlocking and can work out where the overlaps end etc.
Complete it by Monday 1st June and post your answers.
Please review the answer
-Sugavanam
RE: Initial exercise - Peter - 22-05-2009
Question about the layout sheet and the notes.
Number 6 says that "Returning empties from the south are propelled from the Down Main onto the Down Loop and then run round."
However, the route boxes for 67 signal only gives three entries. Two we know must be for the main routes (the PLJI gives us that clue) and hence there is only one left for the shunt moves. Given that note 5 tells us that the "south" trains go have a run round and then propel onto the UM, this can only be done from the Up Loop so the shunt from 67 appear to be for the up loop. However, if note six is correct, we also need another shunt route from 67 to allow for the run round onto the train propelled into the down loop. Is this a typo. Should the train from the south be propelled into the up loop from behind 200 signal ready for the run round?
Peter (M)
RE: Initial exercise - PJW - 22-05-2009
(22-05-2009, 04:39 PM)Peter Wrote: Question about the layout sheet and the notes.
Is this a typo?
Peter (M)
Haven't you realised that most IRSE layouts have at least one such; I actually think that it may be a deliberate ploy to separate the "sheep from the goats"- reflecting the real world when there is often inconsistent information........
Actually the intention was for there to have been four routes from that signal- I think that I must have deleted a whole line when stripping out from a completed table.
Still the discussion illustrates the purpose of "thinking through" the operational use of the layout.
RE: Initial exercise - PJW - 01-06-2009
(22-05-2009, 07:28 AM)sugavanam nagarajan Wrote:(17-05-2009, 06:02 PM)PJW Wrote: Before tackling actual IRSE Exam layouts I suggest starting off with the attached relatively simple layout as an introductory exercise.
Complete it by Monday 1st June and post your answers.
Please review the answer
-Sugavanam
Time to give feedback on the exercise. The idea was to get you warmed up on something not too difficult but also to give me some feedback to help judge your background experience and level of understanding. Although seemingly simple, the layout was actually designed to have enough in it to be a good diagnostic exercise and hence has proved useful at revealing some faults.
The first thing to say is that we all make errors, so please don't fret; the important thing is to learn from them. Remember this area of the website is relatively private and so the
RE: Initial exercise - sugavanam nagarajan - 01-06-2009
(01-06-2009, 06:43 AM)PJW Wrote:(22-05-2009, 07:28 AM)sugavanam nagarajan Wrote: [quote='PJW' pid='796' dateline='1242579748']
Before tackling actual IRSE Exam layouts I suggest starting off with the attached relatively simple layout as an introductory exercise.
Complete it by Monday 1st June and post your answers.
Please review the answer
-Sugavanam
Time to give feedback on the exercise. The idea was to get you warmed up on something not too difficult but also to give me some feedback to help judge your background experience and level of understanding. Although seemingly simple, the layout was actually designed to have enough in it to be a good diagnostic exercise and hence has proved useful at revealing some faults.
The first thing to say is that we all make errors, so please don't fret; the important thing is to learn from them. Remember this area of the website is relatively private and so the
RE: Initial exercise - PJW - 01-06-2009
(01-06-2009, 02:04 PM)sugavanam nagarajan Wrote: Thanks for your comments.I have attached the altered one.
While making fair copy silly mistakes have happened (points and track circuit missing).
I have only 1.5 years of experience in signalling field, So i may lag in few concepts.The comments was very much useful and like to gain more.
I would like to get clarified on the following,
1.For the route 54 A(M)- BH or 103 R how much it serves to avoid fouling for the movement from signal 69 (as the only movement with 103R).
2.For the movement from MA 64 requires slot or not? [Assuming exit control in other signal box]
3.Conditions to prefer controlled signal with passable?
-Sugavanam
1. There are actually 2 routes which require 103R: 69A(M) and 202A(S). [This prompts me to realise that I made a mistake and missed off a line for the MA69 entry! In addition I now note that you have also put 200B(S) but that isn't actually necessary as that route demands 202 off and so that makes sure that 103 is R without 200 having to do it explicitly itself.] Anyway if 103 is R nd BH is occupied then it is a reasonable deduction that it is the diagonal portion of BH which is being occupied. Hence any train on BH must be travelling parallel to a train using 102R so althoough BG and BH actually abut each other we can be confident that the trains are on railway lines separated by 6ft and thus will not hit each other.
If however you imagine a train that has previously been signalled on route 54B(M) that has just passed over 102A N and BG has just repicked, then the portion of BH which is occupied is the horizontal portion and thus the end of the train could be very close to BG. Another train passing over 102R would therefore hit the first one. To see this put an object saw 1cm wide (e.g. a highlighter or other thick pen) on covering BK/BJ/BH and then another one covering DA/BG. Remember that railway tracks are not like the single line representation of this plan byt a pair of rails separated by the gauge and indeed railway vehicles are considerably wider than the rail gauge itself. Therefore BH must be treated as a FOUL track; firstly the point locking should prevent 102 being called to R if BH occupied (unless 103 is itself R) and as a bit of "belt and braces" if BH becomes occupied when 102R (perhaps it could be a train that had been held at MA67 rolling backwards down the dradient a short distance as the driver takes brakes off prior to moving forward) then the aspect of 54A would be reverted to danger.
2. To be honest we are having to guess what might be off the end of the plan. I'd take the view that the slot would be applied to MA68 and MA70; once the train has been authorised onto the single line then later signals don't need slots.
3. Basically signals should be plated as passable if:
a) there are no points or Ground Frames in line of route
b) there are no trailing points in overlap
c) there are no facing points in overlap (except that the "simple" case of an overlap having just one track circuit within it irrespective of the lie of one set of facing points counts in this category)
d) there are no opposing direction moves that enter the route or overlap (with the exception of an intermediate signal within a longer stretch of single line where it is the signals at the two extremities that lock each other rather than the various intermediate signals),
e) there are no controlled level crossings in line of route.
The way to think about it is: what would happen if a driver encountered signal at red, couldn't contact the signaller and therefore proceeded cautiously ready to stop on sight of the tail lamp of the train which might be stationary or running slowly IN THE SAME DIRECTION. If this would be safe then OK to plate as passable- if there is a possibility of the train derailing / hitting something else etc then we mustn't let the driver proceed on their own authority and thus must not plate a passable. This is likely to lead to long delays but better to be safe than sorry.
RE: Initial exercise - peternrz - 08-06-2009
I am making a late submission as I am keen to clarify certain issues from your review.I have not looked at other attempts submitted.
Sorry I missed the deadline as I became aware of the exercise on the closing date due to certain reasons.
RE: Initial exercise - PJW - 09-06-2009
(08-06-2009, 11:11 PM)peternrz Wrote: I am making a late submission as I am keen to clarify certain issues from your review.I have not looked at other attempts submitted.
Sorry I missed the deadline as I became aware of the exercise on the closing date due to certain reasons.
Did you intend to post an attachment?
Note that you first need to "Browse" for file, then "Attach" it, and finally "Post Reply" for it to upload.
RE: Initial exercise - peternrz - 10-06-2009
Sorry my mistake! I hadn't noticed the attachment format had been rejected.
PS: Ommission-All the aspects in the shunt routes are position light.