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2004 Headway Calcs
#1
Hello Peter,

Sorry for not making the deadline of 26th March 2010.

Appended please find my workings.

I have some questions please:

1 While the calculations show that 3 aspect signalling can support the headway requirements, the model answer has 4 aspect signalling in the vicinity of Station D. How was this conclusion arrived at? I mean the calculations do not show 4 aspect is needed.

2 Single Line on the Branch - I do not see the need for stopping headway calculations on the Branch. Three aspect signalling can support the speed of 120 km/h.

Look forward to your reply

Thank you & Regards
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#2
(27-03-2010, 11:41 AM)alexgoei Wrote: Hello Peter,

Sorry for not making the deadline of 26th March 2010.

Appended please find my workings.

I have some questions please:

1 While the calculations show that 3 aspect signalling can support the headway requirements, the model answer has 4 aspect signalling in the vicinity of Station D. How was this conclusion arrived at? I mean the calculations do not show 4 aspect is needed.

2 Single Line on the Branch - I do not see the need for stopping headway calculations on the Branch. Three aspect signalling can support the speed of 120 km/h.

Look forward to your reply

Thank you & Regards

No problem- it is just that quite a few people have expressed a theoretical interest in joining a virtual Study Group- what I am trying to establish is how many are actually going to participate in practice- I was working on the assumption that you be one of those who would.

Re your queries: one thing at a time; first the calculations to see what is the minimum level of signalling required to meet the headway requirement whilst satisfying braking constraints; then consider the particular layout to decide what signalling it is best to provide to respect the results of the calculations BUT ALSO take other factors into consideration!

I am not disagreeing with either of your two statements. However looking just at question 1 of the 2004 paper, this says;
Determine theoretically, either by calculation or graphically, appropriate signal spacings for the braking characteristics and the intensity of traffic on offer. All calculations and graphs must be shown.

It does not explicitly ask for stopping and non-stopping calculations to be performed for all parts of the layout shown, does it?
Interpret it as saying "Using your skill and judgement based upon experience and an understanding of the salient factors, decide what are the important headway constraints to satisfy when setting about signalling this particular layout. Concentrating on those factors that you consider key issues, [which may perhaps be:

a) platform reoccupation times at a through or terminal station,
or
b) following train capacity in the plain line sections,
or
c) a "bottleneck" constraint due to needing to operate traffic in either direction along a single line section or junction occupation times for a busy intersection of traffic flows]

determine what constraints these would impose on your choice of signal spacing to adopt when later placing signals on the actual layout diagram. Record the numerical values of thse constraints and explain their derivation.

Once we have got people happy with Q1 then we will consider Q2; you are right however that an initial assumption may need revisiting when other factors are taken into consideration
PJW
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#3
Hello Peter,

Thank you for your reply.

I must say you have not lost form - your response is as quick as ever!

With regards to my question on 4 aspect signalling, one reason I see the merits of 4 aspect signalling around Station D is that the shorter sections between signals will enable greater throughput and better capacity optimisation especially with trains of different speeds, stopping and not stopping given that there is a permanent speed restriction of 40 km/h around Station D.

Regards

Alex
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#4
(27-03-2010, 03:54 PM)alexgoei Wrote: Hello Peter,

Thank you for your reply.

I must say you have not lost form - your response is as quick as ever!

With regards to my question on 4 aspect signalling, one reason I see the merits of 4 aspect signalling around Station D is that the shorter sections between signals will enable greater throughput and better capacity optimisation especially with trains of different speeds, stopping and not stopping given that there is a permanent speed restriction of 40 km/h around Station D.

Regards

Alex
Indeed; the non-stop calculations are applicable for the section of the line where all trains are going at constant timetabled speed- not applicable to the station area.

You seem to have got different values for SBD at 100km/hr and 40km/hr than included in the Study pack Appendix W. There can be no other reason for this than arithmetical error (and having rechecked I don't think it is me!)

Whereas the first 4 columns of the table are perfectly self explanatory given your column headings, I think that the remainder needs considerably more explanation. The idea in the Study Pack was to give the numbers to give those working through it the confidence that they were getting the right numbers mathmatically, NOT to show how an answer to the exam should be presented- there are other examples provided for that.

You need to be clearer that the 120sec relates to the specification plus an allowance for contingency. You also need to justify WHY you are building in that level of over capacity. You are right to round down the headway distances and quote to a round 10m; the important thing is to keep a sense of perspectiveand to me 3999.60 is effectively 4000m for all practical purposes!

You certainly mustn't just quote DGR formula in column 7. Your heading does state certain assumptions but there is no expalnation how these factors influence headway, let alone what DGR is and why it is relevant. Further, the significance of what seems to be a random ratio between this unknown quantity and the SBD for determining the form of signalling being proposed is completely obscure.

The marks in this question are largely for demonstrating your understanding by giving a clear explanation- just calculating the numbers themselves won't give you much credit. You MUST concentrate your attention in being able to give that explanation and not rely on knowing formulae to plug numbers into- especialy those that you don't even quote. I think that you ought to have another go at producing an answer that would gain you more marks; you need to train yourself to produce on demand a clear explanation that doesn't consume too much time. There are various bits in the Study Pack that ought to help you construct that explanation and by getting practice in reproducing it ou should gradually be able to refine it; in a sense it is like the effort you made getting to a standard Control Table blank that suited you in mod3.

I haven't yet looked at the 2nd part in detail, but that actually seems rather better presented. I think a diagram would be a useful supplement in order to relate sections:a,b,c,....f to something and to clarify what you mean by "signal protecting platform" given that at this stage there are no signals on the layout- there is obviously an unstated assumption somewhere!
PJW
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#5
Hello Peter,

Sorry for taking so long to make the necessary changes and resubmit an amended answer to the calculations for the 2004 Layout calculations as you had suggested. So here it is.

In this revised answer, I believe I have addressed most if not all the points you raised about my previous answer with respect to explaining why a contingency is necessary; explaining why I think 3 aspect signalling is suitable for the layout for non-stopping and stopping instead of just using the ratio of DGR to SBD.

I have also started putting in possible locations for signal posts on the layout. Given the junctions and crossings especially at Station D, I am increasingly inclined to put 4 aspect signalling at D.

Look forward to your comments while I will in the meantime attempt to complete the other requirements for the answer.

Thank you & Regards
Hello Peter,

Here is the appended work sheet

Regards
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#6
(18-04-2010, 12:15 PM)alexgoei Wrote: Hello Peter,
Here is the appended work sheet

Regards

Having now completed the Signet event, we better get moving on module 2 calcs again. I'll have a look at these and then post responses. Suggest you look at the exercise which Interesting Signal submitted answerrs and have a go at the ones not yet answered; that should get us all together again
PJW
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#7
Hello Peter,

Will do.
In fact hope to submit by tomorrow the calcualtions for the year 2000 paper (referred by Interesting Signals).

Cheers
Alex

Quote:Having now completed the Signet event, we better get moving on module 2 calcs again. I'll have a look at these and then post responses. Suggest you look at the exercise which Interesting Signal submitted answerrs and have a go at the ones not yet answered; that should get us all together again
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#8
Here are my headway calcs for the 2004 paper, I've considered the stopping and non-stopping headways.

Consideration of branch/single line to follow.
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#9
(26-05-2010, 11:03 PM)interesting_signal Wrote: Here are my headway calcs for the 2004 paper, I've considered the stopping and non-stopping headways.

Consideration of branch/single line to follow.

There does not seen to be an attachment here. Can you please post it.

Peter
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#10
(27-05-2010, 02:01 PM)Peter Wrote:
(26-05-2010, 11:03 PM)interesting_signal Wrote: Here are my headway calcs for the 2004 paper, I've considered the stopping and non-stopping headways.

Consideration of branch/single line to follow.

There does not seen to be an attachment here. Can you please post it.

Peter

This particular thread is moderated by PJW, so my attachment won't be available until he makes it visible. And I believe he's on holidays until next week.
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