To answer questions in turn:
Licence holder means that you can undertake a specific job role. such as Designer, Principles Designer, Design Manager, Functional Tester, Principles Tester, Tester-in-Charge etc. Network Rail basically make holding a relevant an IRSE a pre-requisite for working on their infrastructure.
IRSE Member (with capital M- corporate membership MIRSE) is more of a refelction of professional standing within the industry- it is not job related. It is one of several indicators that an employer may care to take notice of when recruiting for a position within their organisation.
No examination for a licence; however you do have a Workplace Assessment followed by a Competence Assesment. Depending on the exact licence, the WA may be mainly observation of you undertaking the activity (e.g. installation), but may be largely the inspection of work you have done (design). However there will generally be some aural questioning to probe your underpining knowledge- so perhaps of a verbal examination. Similarly the CA will be looking at your evidence portfolio and will be doing some questioning etc to satisfy themselves and provide additional evidence.
For MIRSE, one of the routes is via the IRSE Exam. Indeed it is the preferred route and is one that can get you that status at a younger age / with less years of experience than would otherwise be the case.
You must be paying the IRSE a membership (small m) subscription to be eligible to sit the exam- hence for example you may have Student membership. This permits you to partake of IRSE visits, lectures, receive IRSE News magasine etc.
When you have passed a set of four relevant Exam modules AND you have a period within of Responsible Experience in your job role, then you can apply for full corporate Membership (llrge M). This is what entitles you to vote, use the letters MIRSE as a post nominal etc.
There are ways to become MIRSE without the exam (perhaps best used by more senior engineers from outside the UK who have already achieved a standing in the industry before joining the IRSE as an organisation), so there isn't a complete linkage, but the IRSE Exam is on the major route to obtain MIRSE.
So what is the purpose of the Exam? Depends how you look at it,- either invaluable or a waste of time! Not 100 per cent essential; not having done it does not prevent you from being able to do anything. On the other hand, having passed the exam does mark you out as having a broad knowledge in areas of the profession which lie outside your day job. Hence it should be a means by which you can demonstrate that you have earned the right to be listened to- that you are beginning to become an "all round" signal engineer rather than just a specialist in one small niche of the industry. Actually the value of the IRSE Exam is the learning that you do and experience you assimilate whilst preparing for it, rather more than the piece of paper to frame and put on the wall.
It isn't in reality a problem for Student membership. Bring a form to an IRSE event, particularly a Younger Member one (the exam review on 7th Feb would be one for example). The fact you turned up for the event would be all I would need to sign; actually bring a photocopy and the original of any degree certificate etc because probably the most important initial is the one certifying that the photocopy is of the original certificate. In the past I have signed the application form for someone who was in Turkey and I got the IRSE Chief Executive to place the other signature.
The "deadline" is a little flexible; the important thing is that there is time to progress your application then present it for the formality of the Membership Committee which meets only occasionally and then have time to be ratified. In truth, some applications which are a bit late can often be squeezed through, but IRSE do not commit to do this and each year they decide (from the timing of all the various meetings) what is the date to quote. Since it does vary, the advice on the IRSE Forum is deliberately pessimistic by saying that if you get it in by end of Jan then you'll be ok in any year, but the actual date is always later than this by 3-6 weeks depending on circumstances. So the answer this year is 28th Feb (and in practice even if you miss this a bit then you may well still be lucky but no guarantees.
Yes you can take any number (0-4) in any one year; once you have gained a module then you have it and can use it to make a complete set after any number of years. Actually for most people I would advise no more than 2 modules per year.
Give details of your university degree syllabus to the IRSE. For example I think that if your degree is exclusively Telecomms then it is not difficult to get ann exemption from module 4, but this isn't usually granted where the degree is more general electronics degree with Telecomms content. I am not aware that dspensation has been given for any of the Signalling modules but that may be because historically in the UK that there have not been dedicated industry courses. Certainly the Central Queensland University open learning course is regarded as equivalent to an IRSE Exam pass. It isn't worth trying if your degree is general Electrical / Electronic / Mechanical / Computer Sceience etc.; it has to be very specifically relevant. However from what little I know from what you have stated, then in your case it may be worth a try. Don't think that you have anything to lose so I suggest you apply to Christine White at the IRSE and be patient whilst they evaluate and consider.
I am not sure on this one. Based purely on your age and the length of time that you have been in the industry, I personally doubt whether you'd be able to demonstrate the required Responsible Experience yet. This does not mean that it is not valuable formative experience in railway signal engineering. Broadly though for MIRSE you have to demonstrate that you are doing more than following existing process, but innovating, leading a team etc.
The subscriptions do differ a bit for the various membership grades, but not hugely. It is noticeably cheaper if you opt for emembership at a certain grade- by foregoing printed matter then there is a saving to be made.
The exam is something separate and yes the bill for 4 modules does add up to a significant sum. A good reason for not sitting any module until you judge that you have a pretty good chance of passing it. Whereas it may look pricy from the UK, spare a thought for those from India etc where in local currency terms the subscriptions and exam fees seem extremely large.
Hope this has helped. Feel free to ask further if still unclear
[/quote]
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - what is the difference between an IRSE Member (take the Affiliate Member grade for example) and an IRSE Licence holder?
Licence holder means that you can undertake a specific job role. such as Designer, Principles Designer, Design Manager, Functional Tester, Principles Tester, Tester-in-Charge etc. Network Rail basically make holding a relevant an IRSE a pre-requisite for working on their infrastructure.
IRSE Member (with capital M- corporate membership MIRSE) is more of a refelction of professional standing within the industry- it is not job related. It is one of several indicators that an employer may care to take notice of when recruiting for a position within their organisation.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: I've read ....that there is an extensive examination for both of them, but from the industry point of view, what is the difference between an individual that is an IRSE Member and one that is an IRSE Licenced ?
No examination for a licence; however you do have a Workplace Assessment followed by a Competence Assesment. Depending on the exact licence, the WA may be mainly observation of you undertaking the activity (e.g. installation), but may be largely the inspection of work you have done (design). However there will generally be some aural questioning to probe your underpining knowledge- so perhaps of a verbal examination. Similarly the CA will be looking at your evidence portfolio and will be doing some questioning etc to satisfy themselves and provide additional evidence.
For MIRSE, one of the routes is via the IRSE Exam. Indeed it is the preferred route and is one that can get you that status at a younger age / with less years of experience than would otherwise be the case.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - what is the exact purpose of the IRSE Exam, what is the outcome of passing the IRSE Exam (M1+another 3 modules) On the site it is stated that in order to be accepted as a IRSE Member with the grade of Affiliate Member, you must pass the Exam. But on the other hand, you must be an IRSE Member to enter the exam. So the exam is required in order to be accepted as an IRSE Member with a certain grade? Or the exam is something independent of the IRSE Member status?
You must be paying the IRSE a membership (small m) subscription to be eligible to sit the exam- hence for example you may have Student membership. This permits you to partake of IRSE visits, lectures, receive IRSE News magasine etc.
When you have passed a set of four relevant Exam modules AND you have a period within of Responsible Experience in your job role, then you can apply for full corporate Membership (llrge M). This is what entitles you to vote, use the letters MIRSE as a post nominal etc.
There are ways to become MIRSE without the exam (perhaps best used by more senior engineers from outside the UK who have already achieved a standing in the industry before joining the IRSE as an organisation), so there isn't a complete linkage, but the IRSE Exam is on the major route to obtain MIRSE.
So what is the purpose of the Exam? Depends how you look at it,- either invaluable or a waste of time! Not 100 per cent essential; not having done it does not prevent you from being able to do anything. On the other hand, having passed the exam does mark you out as having a broad knowledge in areas of the profession which lie outside your day job. Hence it should be a means by which you can demonstrate that you have earned the right to be listened to- that you are beginning to become an "all round" signal engineer rather than just a specialist in one small niche of the industry. Actually the value of the IRSE Exam is the learning that you do and experience you assimilate whilst preparing for it, rather more than the piece of paper to frame and put on the wall.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: to become a member, you must submit the application form for the grade best suited for you. But I see that for all grades (including Affiliate) you need to be recommended by two IRSE Members. So, in other words, IRSE Membership application is only available to those individuals that are recommended by existing IRSE Members? What if I don't know any IRSE Members that can recommend me?
It isn't in reality a problem for Student membership. Bring a form to an IRSE event, particularly a Younger Member one (the exam review on 7th Feb would be one for example). The fact you turned up for the event would be all I would need to sign; actually bring a photocopy and the original of any degree certificate etc because probably the most important initial is the one certifying that the photocopy is of the original certificate. In the past I have signed the application form for someone who was in Turkey and I got the IRSE Chief Executive to place the other signature.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - what is the deadline to apply for membership (step required in order to apply for the IRSE exam) ? On the IRSE website it says 28/02/2014, but here on the forum it says end of January
The "deadline" is a little flexible; the important thing is that there is time to progress your application then present it for the formality of the Membership Committee which meets only occasionally and then have time to be ratified. In truth, some applications which are a bit late can often be squeezed through, but IRSE do not commit to do this and each year they decide (from the timing of all the various meetings) what is the date to quote. Since it does vary, the advice on the IRSE Forum is deliberately pessimistic by saying that if you get it in by end of Jan then you'll be ok in any year, but the actual date is always later than this by 3-6 weeks depending on circumstances. So the answer this year is 28th Feb (and in practice even if you miss this a bit then you may well still be lucky but no guarantees.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - the IRSE Exam is held in October each year. You can take examination for a maximum of 4 modules in one exam session. You need to pass 4 modules to pass the exam. But you must pass all modules in a single session or, for example, you can take 2 modules in Oct. 2014 and another 2 in Oct, 2015 and still count as a passed exam?
Yes you can take any number (0-4) in any one year; once you have gained a module then you have it and can use it to make a complete set after any number of years. Actually for most people I would advise no more than 2 modules per year.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - in the IRSE Exam equivalents guide it is stated that the IRSE Exam is equivalent (and therefore not mandatory) with "an academic qualification to degree level in railway signalling or railway telecommunications engineering from a recognised UK or overseas university or training college". How can I find out if my university is recognised and if my B.Eng and M.Eng majors are valid?
Give details of your university degree syllabus to the IRSE. For example I think that if your degree is exclusively Telecomms then it is not difficult to get ann exemption from module 4, but this isn't usually granted where the degree is more general electronics degree with Telecomms content. I am not aware that dspensation has been given for any of the Signalling modules but that may be because historically in the UK that there have not been dedicated industry courses. Certainly the Central Queensland University open learning course is regarded as equivalent to an IRSE Exam pass. It isn't worth trying if your degree is general Electrical / Electronic / Mechanical / Computer Sceience etc.; it has to be very specifically relevant. However from what little I know from what you have stated, then in your case it may be worth a try. Don't think that you have anything to lose so I suggest you apply to Christine White at the IRSE and be patient whilst they evaluate and consider.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: - in the "Membership routes" guide, for the Associate Member grade, it says that I need primary technical qualification in the shape of two years post-graduate studies, three years of practical experience and to have currently a Responsible Experience position (as defined in the document). Question: how can I decide if I meet these conditions or not? How can I be evaluated, because there are no detailed informations on the site on how exactly these requirements are assessed (i.e. if my post-graduate studies are accepted, if my experience qualifies for 3years practical and if my current position is accepted as Responsible Experience)?
I am not sure on this one. Based purely on your age and the length of time that you have been in the industry, I personally doubt whether you'd be able to demonstrate the required Responsible Experience yet. This does not mean that it is not valuable formative experience in railway signal engineering. Broadly though for MIRSE you have to demonstrate that you are doing more than following existing process, but innovating, leading a team etc.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: IRSE Member and IRSE Exam have different rates? For example, to take this year's exam in order to obtain Associate Member grade, that would be 91 for the member status and 58*4 for the exam with 4 modules, which makes a total of 323£ ?
The subscriptions do differ a bit for the various membership grades, but not hugely. It is noticeably cheaper if you opt for emembership at a certain grade- by foregoing printed matter then there is a saving to be made.
The exam is something separate and yes the bill for 4 modules does add up to a significant sum. A good reason for not sitting any module until you judge that you have a pretty good chance of passing it. Whereas it may look pricy from the UK, spare a thought for those from India etc where in local currency terms the subscriptions and exam fees seem extremely large.
(13-01-2014, 01:36 PM)viperfx15 Wrote: Thanks in advance for your time and answers.
Hope this has helped. Feel free to ask further if still unclear
[/quote]
PJW