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2009 CTs- further attempts
#1
See entry in Signet event for some other attempts at this year's layout.

Attached here are some routes and points undertaken on a blank which is an amended simplified version of the 11202 issue 4 standard. No guarantees that these are perfect, but at least something to compare against
PJW
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#2
Hi,

Am trying to attempt 2009 paper and got struck at the Shunt Overlap. In the layout the overlap symbol is shown for few shunt routes and not shown for the other.

For example, route 418C(S) leading to 382 - overlap symbol is shown on the down branch line as 180. Does that symbol is applicable for this shunt route also or used purely for main moves like 416C(M).

Route from Independent ground PL(Shunt) to another Independent PL is provided with an overlap where as the route from GPL to main signal(i.e 418C(S) ) is not shown with the shunt overlap.

So, when the overlap can be considered for the shunt move and when can be omitted? Please clarify.

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

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#3
(08-09-2010, 09:09 PM)jenni.joseph9 Wrote: Hi,

Am trying to attempt 2009 paper and got struck at the Shunt Overlap. In the layout the overlap symbol is shown for few shunt routes and not shown for the other.

For example, route 418C(S) leading to 382 - overlap symbol is shown on the down branch line as 180. Does that symbol is applicable for this shunt route also or used purely for main moves like 416C(M).

Route from Independent ground PL(Shunt) to another Independent PL is provided with an overlap where as the route from GPL to main signal(i.e 418C(S) ) is not shown with the shunt overlap.

So, when the overlap can be considered for the shunt move and when can be omitted? Please clarify.

Sorry I missed this post initially.

The way I read this plan is that it is assuming that all shunt routes have overlaps.

Therefore where there is an overlap at the exit signal, then the shunt routes reading up to that signal will utilise this as their overlap (assuming non-permissive shunt route; where there is a possibility of being required to join a train on the berth track for example, then an overlap is not applicable).

The plan denotes shunt overlaps where the overlap shown is ONLY for shunt routes up to the exit signal, not for other classes. I think in this case that it is wherever there are no running moves provided on the layout; as you say where the exit signal is a PL then there are shunt overlaps shown (as of course no running moves up to the exit) but where there is a main signal then almost certainly (but not definitively) there will be a running move up to the exit and hence no shunt overlap shown as there will be an overlap marked anyway.

Note however that it would be possible to define a shunt overlap that is shorter than that for a running move (e.g. 75m rather than 180m) but I suspect that it would only in reality be worth doing if a convenient track joint needed to exist for other reasons, otherwise would add significantly to costs for little real benefit. However where there is a ROL provided for any Warning class route, then I'd expect the shunt route to use this rather than the full overlap.

Does that resolve for you?


This represents what is now NR practice, but only became like this within the last few years so little of the network currently embodies this practice

PJW
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#4
Hi,

I was about to Post the Layout for your reference.

Thanks alot for the reply and it serves the purpose. I will attempt the layout considering Shunt overlaps and will submit here for your suggestions, shortly.

Thanks & Regards.
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#5
Hi,

Can anyone please look at my attempt. Feedback is most appreciated.

Thanks & Regards.

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#6
(16-09-2010, 10:00 AM)jenni.joseph9 Wrote: Hi,
Can anyone please look at my attempt. Feedback is most appreciated.

Thanks & Regards.

I have a couple of mod1 questions and a mod 2 layout to attend to before this rises to the top of my pile. Perhaps someone else may be able to respond earlier but otherwise I'll try to do so over the weekend.
Do remember that we have full time "day jobs" to perform (>12hours for me today and just got talked into a Saturday nightshift this weekend as well) so that we cannot always respond as soon as we might like.
PJW
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#7
(16-09-2010, 10:00 AM)jenni.joseph9 Wrote: Hi,
Can anyone please look at my attempt. Feedback is most appreciated.

Thanks & Regards.

Just started having a look, so a few initial comments:

1. I think that the Control Table headings are good and therefore as a blank t is a reasonable one to utilise.


2. The one thing that I think it is worth changing is for the points. I recommend changing your 2nd level in the heading to be arranged one two lines spanning the first and second columns,
PJW
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#8
Hi,


Thanks for your comments. I will update my CT format with the comments that you provided.

I am analysing the time values and comments given by you in various posts.

Awaiting further comments and very grateful for the analysis done, so far.

Thanks a bunch.

Regards.
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#9
(23-09-2010, 06:40 AM)jenni.joseph9 Wrote: Hi,
Awaiting further comments and very grateful for the analysis done, so far.

Reasonable attempt at Points Control Tables.
I have notices a few one-off mistakes and particularly some missing routes, but some more generic things are:

1. You tend to show overlap track sections to the end of the overlap whereas you should restrict to those that are locking the points. Typical SSI practice is to list up to the sub-route prior to the deadlocking track.

2. Conditioning out of route locking by track occupied for time should be shown to apply only to those track sections that could reasonably be occupied; you place the opening bracket wrongly.

3. Where there are a pair of tracks in a platform, then occupancy of either would generally be used to release overlap locking.

4. You should only list those tracks in the overlap beyond the signal up to but EXCLUDING the track containing the points

5. If there is a foul track, then the route locking should be shown to extend onto that track circuit section.

6. Do a cross check that the last track listed as route locking holding the points is the last applicable deadlocking / foul track circuit.

Even though switch diamonds do not provide effective flank protection, suggest that it is worth setting and locking (although not detecting) appropriately as often does help keep things safer when handsignalling.

Recommend that when it is not very clear from the layout depiction that you state assumption re IRJs being clear / foul.

Didn't understand why you wrote info re 237R>N on 236 point CT

Notice that you wasted all the time it took to include swinging overlap and time of operation loccking on your blank CT since these boxes were never used. Hence that is why I recommend a simplified CT without these boxes and that you write in on theose occasions when is actually needed.


Route Control Tables

Column headings OK apart from recommendation to distinguish between ppoint availability at route level and the aspect level proving of points set, locked and detected.

Not bad attempts; see my annotations.

Missing some opposing locking, particularly those that are prevented initially by ovrlap point locking but then need the opposing locking when the overlaps time out.
Also the opposing from routes which read into the CT route from beyond the exit signal; don't look far enough.

For swinging overlaps, either combine the track conditions in with the point conditions and cover all overlaps separately, or do as you have and write in the point conditions and separately hace different entries for the tracks but in which case be careful to get the point conditioning correct relative to those tracks.

Auto signals have no Approach Locking so can't really be ARAFOAL. Easiest thing is just to disregard and take lookback through them unconditionally (although we sometimes provide a functionality that is a form of pseudo A/L)

Do consider the possibility of SPAD where there are converging signals- either the traditional flank tracks otr the modern iverrun protection.

Do put in some approximate time values rather than "t"

Differentiate re which is the pre-setting route and which is the route that is pre-set


Ovrerall though reasonably good, so if you can do them in the time allowance then you'll be ok
PJW
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